Jan. 13, 2013, 3:24 p.m.
(Last edited by Joto on Jan. 13, 2013, 3:37 p.m.)
I agree that it's USUALLY better for inexperienced users to have some kind of price guide. I only say it's 'usually' better, because sometimes it is very dangerous for them, if they don't understand how to use it safely.
For example, during the past 24 hours, hundreds of inexperienced users are getting sharked out of discontinued hats like the Fancy Fedora, Soldier's Stash, Demoman Fro, Pyro Beanie, etc, because they are trusting the price guides to show them the correct price, instead of checking properly. But actually the market price for these hats is 2x-4x the price on the price guides. (I'm not saying that price makes any sense, but it is what people are paying)
A summary:
1 Inexperienced traders love price guides. The majority of users are inexperienced traders. So, if Dispenser.tf shows prices, then it will be popular with the majority of users. Dispenser.tf needs to be popular, because even a good trading site is not useful if it does not have many users (e.g. bazaar.tf).
2 Price guides USUALLY protect people from being sharked, and save them time researching prices, which is GOOD.
3 The problem with price guides, is that inexperienced traders rely on them too much. They think it is a law, not only a guide. Mostly they don't do ANY research. They don't understand that market forces set the price, and the price guide reports it after a few days. The result is those users might be 'cheated' out of profit when prices change suddenly. It also means that price guides actually start to influence prices, instead of just reporting them, which is BAD
The same thing would have still happened even if there is no backpack.tf. Some people sold those hat cheap because they did not know the hats have been discontinued, not really because backpack.tf did not update fast enough. I do totally agree with your #3, and it has been discussed for a lot of times in many occasions. People blame backpack.tf for 'lowballing' their items, or when they change the price of an item they own, but it is merely trying to tell them what is happening on the market right now, not trying to change the outcome of things. People being cheated is not the fault of backpack.tf and they would have been cheated anyway even without it. backpack.tf is just telling them the bad news.
Of course, price guide is never perfect. but instead of ditching price guide altogether, I am more inclined to try helping them to improve.
I do not understand why you say this website is not build primary for seller point of view. Its only feature is 'seller can sale his items even when he himself offline on his own profile. This websites bots do the job for him'. So basically if there are no sellers the bots have no items to sell and there wont be meaning left to 'dispenser' concept. So your major primary customer/user is seller and not buyer.
No, it is not like this at all. What is the use of a trade site if every single person is there for profit? You have to realize that if noone sells anything at a fairly low price, the market would have already pretty much dead because the market is going to be stagnant. We cannot build up a system that emphasize on individual profit. Things would become even worse if we do that. Instead of buying everything overpriced, people would just go to other trade sites or choose not to trade if price is totally out of control. TF2 trading has become very diversed so if you think that nowadays you can sell at whatever price you want as long as you rule out the competition and price guides, you are wrong.
Regarding the backpack.tf prices, yes they help new buyer. But not lot people know these are community made prices. A person who come for buying if doesn't know prices its very obvious he doesn't know whats 'community based prices' and stuff. But that's not point., the point is he comes for buying with positive mind>>looks at the price differences>>gets confused>>and either keep searching or waiting. This is inconvenient because when first time he came he was sure to get item for the price he saw, could afford and was ready to pay. The price-list, this and that keeps him away from his goal and confuses him more. Also seller cant keep explaining everyone whats what and why the items cost this much. Or he cant explain why you should less believe community based prices. (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/discussions/0/846938350621228263/)
About the sharp dresser thing..well yes i am trying to get profit there with large margins..but there is reason for this. I started selling them with 2 refs and sold almost like 40 (http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7542156). Then i saw some posts where other users selling it for key and they sold successfully too. Then question is, why should i trade for 100 times to get same profit when i can do it in 20 or 50? Others are doing it. Why should i don't? And trust me even when i raised it to key ppl still buy it (http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7725667). Not necessary who knows prices or not but those who WANT IT. Less hassle for me and i am ok with some low demands.
Overall,
I do not think of anything such as lowball, shark, overpriced for tf2outpost. The website is simply perfect from both buyer and seller point of view. I simply understand one thing. if something is giving you profit, its working otherwise its not. Even though you say your website is not for seller you provide one and only feature different from others which is designed for selling. So its very necessary you think of them before anyone else. There were other website and trading posts which did not work (bazaar.tf, marketplace.tf) because one thing they have in common. And its mixing of every feature in one, seems to not produce anything for majority of people. Separation is important and tf2outpost have done it successfully. Eventhough there are lowballs, deception, tricks, they do sell. Its part of business and business is never fair!
I would like to see how successful this website becomes. Would people prefer offline trading over profit or not. Or it ends up with thousands of posts (engaging autobot inventories) competing each other negotiating prices by half scrap or even less. And the confused user is wandering around which one to choose. Because they have to match displayed prices for a successful sale right? :)
Price guide does not confuse people. In fact it helps people in making decisions. You only think that it is confusing people because you are selling higher than that price. For people who sell at or lower than backpack.tf price, the integration of the price actually makes their items go much faster.
And who says that backpack.tf price would rule out profit? I have seen people selling for lower than backpack.tf price here for a number of times. I have successfully grabbed their items and resold them for profit too. So instead of buying fair and sell them high, you have to buy them low and sell them fair.
For the remaining I will answer as a whole. If you have read carefully, what I have said was 'think from both sellers and buyers' point of view'. That being said, easy access to reference price is one of the feature buyers would like. Also, from the 'administrative point of view', we have to implement it because that is what users have been requesting and it will do no harm to most people. There is just no reason for us to say no. Shall I say we are not giving anyone easy access to bp.tf price so that some people could get lucky with their overpriced items? Instead of pleasing the profiteers, I would rather build up a trade site that people CANNOT overprice their items and a place that people can always find something at a fair price and would like to come back again. There are many people willing to sell items at bp.tf price, so I am not worry that 'sellers would be all gone and noone will be selling things.' In fact I want all those selling common crates at 1 ref be gone, don't you too?
