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About the changes
April 7, 2014, 8:23 p.m. (Last edited by Siera on April 9, 2014, 4:15 p.m.)
Hey guys!

It's nice to see you try to improve the site, and implement new features.

But I think this update is just too radical. We shall see what happens in the coming days, but buying from dispenser bots supposed to be easy.

Instead of this the need for logging in, and putting the trade offer URL is something that in one hand might rises suspicion in our customers, on the other hand their laziness will might overcome, and just skip our trades on tf2op to buy from somebody who they only need to add and then trade with.

I recommend you to either:
- put the regular trading system back parralel to this
- give us the trade offer link of our bots (might with some 4 digit owner-connected code that the customer should write in the comment section) and make a system that refreshes the bot's trade offers section in every 2 mins or so, and accepts the offers that are acceptable

I hope either our customers will adapt to your new feature, or you'll investigate further what you can implement yet, but I'm afraid there will be some problems.

Sincerely,
Siera
Replies

April 7, 2014, 8:28 p.m.
+1

April 7, 2014, 8:43 p.m.
+1000

now we have a script web, bb my bot trader,buyer put url trade offer??woof woof

April 7, 2014, 9:18 p.m.
+1

Well this trade offer system can work only between bots and owner of them . Before talking about the suspicious of being necessary of logging in and putting the trade offer link, there are lots of people not knowing what the trade offer is . Expecting them to do these things is too much considering all they want is get the games/items as soon as possible .

April 7, 2014, 11:06 p.m.
+++++1

April 8, 2014, 12:03 a.m.
Customers earlier already were afraid of some "bots" and were suspicious about such trade system. And now all these sertificates, browser warnings, trade offer links, "There was an error.. try again later. You can not trade with..", error 28, error 11 and so on. Casual customers don't understand this system or(and) suspect a fraud. And I can not blame them. It would be nice, if you announce upcoming changes in future. Thank you.

April 8, 2014, 12:18 a.m.
+1000 bro

April 8, 2014, 12:55 a.m. (Last edited by bluechampion on April 8, 2014, 1:14 a.m.)
+1, the only thing that I want add: most of gamers that are not trader totally dont know how to use this new system and they wont waste time to learn how it works, it will be easier for them to just add normal guy on tf2outpost...

EDIT: I checked some of big traders new trade history and all of them are clear, now nearly no one has trades on dispenser... People stopped to buy from dispenser bots, I think that Im not only one who is a bit dissapointed...

I really think that the old bot trading system was good enough to keep it and improve...

April 8, 2014, 1:21 a.m.
you get an +UP+ from me brah :)

April 8, 2014, 1:38 a.m.
+1
also want said, many our customer said dispenser is too complicated now. so they not use it...

April 8, 2014, 1:56 a.m.
"put the regular trading system back parralel to this".

Totally agree with this.

The new system helps people who often use the dispenser, but makes it difficult for those who use slightly.

April 8, 2014, 5:33 a.m. (Last edited by Joto on April 8, 2014, 5:39 a.m.)
Cara pushed a quite rushed bot update because he had limited time to develop and even the trade offer itself is not complete. (I do not understand why he has hidden the Trade Offer URL input in the security page also, which was designed for Bitcoin and not normal trading, anyway). And he could not integrate the old steam trade with it. Give him some days and he will be able to make the bots do both things together.

Actually, some people have been urging us to support trade offer because it is a much faster and more reliable way to transfer a large number of items. Also, there is a steam friend limit that prevents the bot from adding friends which will directly affect the old system. So, if everyone will use it, it will solve many problems and create much less errors. I would hope at least every shop owners, especially people with lots of items, to use it. However, judging from the reaction of the buyers, it seems trade offer is still not a very well known feature and most are still confused about its usage. We could do something to help users to get their trade offer url, but I guess this is not enough at this point to justify the removal of Steam Trade.

I also do agree anonymous purchase was a very integral part of this website, and we would love to continue that. So, I will discuss with Cara today at lunch and see how to keep part of the old system with the new one, especially to keep anonymous purchase with Steam trade.

April 8, 2014, 5:52 a.m.
I'm only a customer, not a trader of any kind - and this new system has been more than frustrating to deal with. It's unclear, buggy and unprecise from my Point of View. I've spent about 2 hours just trying to find where the heck my keys went.. :\ Let alone yet figure out just how the hell do you even add them to a backpack to actually trade.

I'm one of those that wholeheartedly support the old methods of trades, or atleast give the traders the CHOICE. Either have em choose to use the old style with the friend adding/removing bot or let em choose to trade with the new method.
As it stands, this new method you guys cooked up is far too complex, methodical and unnecesarry that it turns off casual customers. Hell, like I said, I've spent about 2 hours JUST trying to figure out what to do, at this point I just want my keys back in my inventory so I can try my luck on Steamtrades.

+1 to Siera.

April 8, 2014, 8:27 a.m. (Last edited by Joto on April 8, 2014, 8:34 a.m.)
I'm only a customer, not a trader of any kind - and this new system has been more than frustrating to deal with. It's unclear, buggy and unprecise from my Point of View. I've spent about 2 hours just trying to find where the heck my keys went.. :\ Let alone yet figure out just how the hell do you even add them to a backpack to actually trade.

I'm one of those that wholeheartedly support the old methods of trades, or atleast give the traders the CHOICE. Either have em choose to use the old style with the friend adding/removing bot or let em choose to trade with the new method.
As it stands, this new method you guys cooked up is far too complex, methodical and unnecesarry that it turns off casual customers. Hell, like I said, I've spent about 2 hours JUST trying to figure out what to do, at this point I just want my keys back in my inventory so I can try my luck on Steamtrades.

+1 to Siera.

No worry, we will make it really newbie friendly. We will make it require no login and you only have to provide the trade offer URL once, and after that you can keep trading anonymously. It will be even easier than before. You do not have to add the bot as friend, you do not need to send the bot a message, and you do not even need Steam client running.

But unfortunately, Steam trade has to go. The Steam reverse engineering project is not going to be sustainable in the long run.

April 8, 2014, 9:02 a.m. (Last edited by bluechampion on April 8, 2014, 9:07 a.m.)
I'm only a customer, not a trader of any kind - and this new system has been more than frustrating to deal with. It's unclear, buggy and unprecise from my Point of View. I've spent about 2 hours just trying to find where the heck my keys went.. :\ Let alone yet figure out just how the hell do you even add them to a backpack to actually trade.

I'm one of those that wholeheartedly support the old methods of trades, or atleast give the traders the CHOICE. Either have em choose to use the old style with the friend adding/removing bot or let em choose to trade with the new method.
As it stands, this new method you guys cooked up is far too complex, methodical and unnecesarry that it turns off casual customers. Hell, like I said, I've spent about 2 hours JUST trying to figure out what to do, at this point I just want my keys back in my inventory so I can try my luck on Steamtrades.

+1 to Siera.

No worry, we will make it really newbie friendly. We will make it require no login and you only have to provide the trade offer URL once, and after that you can keep trading anonymously. It will be even easier than before. You do not have to add the bot as friend, you do not need to send the bot a message, and you do not even need Steam client running.

But unfortunately, Steam trade has to go. The Steam reverse engineering project is not going to be sustainable in the long run.



This system made that I have 0 trades, just nothing and before I had minimum (3-5) trades per day. This system will kill dispenser bots, because its to complicated.
The last system was similar to trade with human:
the guy sign in through steam ----- choose item ----- choose items that he will use to pay ----- bot invite him to trade and trade like human

I think that You should just improve the old system. Add the function that 10 minutes after clicking(make transaction) the added traded will be removed, blocked and unblocked (to prevent error with adding users). If (potential trader != owner, then wait 600 sec) remove trader XYZ.

I think that making some ,,guards" in code will improve the old trading system and prevent You from wasting time for cleaning bots friend list.
It is very important for buyers to using the easiest and human-friendly way of trading.


Anyway, I have much more errors during trading via ,,awaiting offers" than in normal trading. It shows me errors and says that transaction wasnt finished, but after 10-20 minutes my items are out and I have another trader's items. Sometimes it shows that transaction is not finished and its really not finished, I hate offer systems and avoid them as much as I can...

April 8, 2014, 9:37 a.m.
I'm only a customer, not a trader of any kind - and this new system has been more than frustrating to deal with. It's unclear, buggy and unprecise from my Point of View. I've spent about 2 hours just trying to find where the heck my keys went.. :\ Let alone yet figure out just how the hell do you even add them to a backpack to actually trade.

I'm one of those that wholeheartedly support the old methods of trades, or atleast give the traders the CHOICE. Either have em choose to use the old style with the friend adding/removing bot or let em choose to trade with the new method.
As it stands, this new method you guys cooked up is far too complex, methodical and unnecesarry that it turns off casual customers. Hell, like I said, I've spent about 2 hours JUST trying to figure out what to do, at this point I just want my keys back in my inventory so I can try my luck on Steamtrades.

+1 to Siera.

No worry, we will make it really newbie friendly. We will make it require no login and you only have to provide the trade offer URL once, and after that you can keep trading anonymously. It will be even easier than before. You do not have to add the bot as friend, you do not need to send the bot a message, and you do not even need Steam client running.

But unfortunately, Steam trade has to go. The Steam reverse engineering project is not going to be sustainable in the long run.



This system made that I have 0 trades, just nothing and before I had minimum (3-5) trades per day. This system will kill dispenser bots, because its to complicated.
The last system was similar to trade with human:
the guy sign in through steam ----- choose item ----- choose items that he will use to pay ----- bot invite him to trade and trade like human

I think that You should just improve the old system. Add the function that 10 minutes after clicking(make transaction) the added traded will be removed, blocked and unblocked (to prevent error with adding users). If (potential trader != owner, then wait 600 sec) remove trader XYZ.

I think that making some ,,guards" in code will improve the old trading system and prevent You from wasting time for cleaning bots friend list.
It is very important for buyers to using the easiest and human-friendly way of trading.


Anyway, I have much more errors during trading via ,,awaiting offers" than in normal trading. It shows me errors and says that transaction wasnt finished, but after 10-20 minutes my items are out and I have another trader's items. Sometimes it shows that transaction is not finished and its really not finished, I hate offer systems and avoid them as much as I can...

The old system cannot be improved. And if Steam changes its protocol, its all over for us because noone is going to reverse engineer Steam anymore. Using trade offer could let us less dependent on Steam client (which is easier for us to adopt their changes). You never know how much time is wasted on just figuring out why something breaks all of a sudden because Steam changes some little thing in their Steam client. Also the friend limit thing is just a start - you can work around it today but you never know if you can work around that in the future. Valve could add more and more limitation to the Steam client to the point that we can no longer work around that.

The over-complicated problem will be improved very soon. We will just ask for trade offer link from the customer once and it will be saved in their cookies. Then they can do anonymous purchase without inputting anything.
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